Miracle Theater Uses Kathy Griffin's Emmy Slur for Advertising
The attached .pdf statement from "The Miracle Theater" in Pigeon Forge, TN is the full page ad they apparently took out in USA Today in response to comedian Kathy Griffin's off-color line at the Emmy Awards. As she proudly proclaims on her website, "Kathy didn't take long to slip into red carpet mode after the announcement with what will go down as one of the best quotes in Emmy history, "Can you believe this shit? Hell has frozen over. Suck it, Jesus, this award is my god now."
So we ask a few questions. Was it tasteless? Of course. But was The Miracle Theater statement an appropriate response?
First, I have no doubt of the staff of The Miracle Theater's sincerity. They're trying to make a statement to counter-act what they viewed (but not some Christians) as an anti-Christian line. But a few things come to mind:
The statement is another example of Christians being "reactive." Where's The Miracle Theater been in the media world before this? When we're seen as purely reactive to events in the culture, it hurts the impact of our message. This keeps presenting us to the culture as the people who are against everything. We don't like rock and roll, music, dancing, TV, movies, whatever. Let's stop reacting to the culture, and start acting. Instead of being against everything, let's become known as the people are for something.
Next - doing it as an advertisement really hurts it's credibility. A simple public letter is fine. But the ad makes readers wonder what the theater's motive really is. Is it's purpose to defend the Christian faith, or to sell tickets?
Finally, The Miracle Theater is in Pigeon Forge, TN. Nothing wrong with Pigeon Forge - my family vacationed there when I was growing up and I loved it. But it's not exactly Broadway. It's not at the cutting edge of culture.
I've been told their performances are terrific, and they are certainly a talented bunch, but to position themselves in this manner - "The Miracle Theater versus Hollywood" is really a little off.
Now, as regular readers know, this is a forum. It's a conversation about media and culture. So I want to hear what you think. Am I off base? Did they do the right thing? What do you think?
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Kathy was on Larry King last night, and it was interesting to hear her talk about this whole thing. She's pretty smart! She was talking about how she had the whole thing planned out so that it would create a scandal, and get everyone talking about her. Pretty sly self-promotion. And her reasoning for saying what she said was actually pretty sound - it wasn't meant as disrespect to Jesus, but rather all the celebs who get up in the award shows and thank Jesus for the award - "as if Jesus cares more about what's going on in Malibu than he does in the Sudan". Actually, though, I was thinking when I heard her say that, that I almost NEVER hear a celeb thank Jesus. They usually thank the nameless and faceless and amorphous "god". I suppose because it's so TABOO to mention Jesus in Hollywood - except when mocking or satarizing.As to your original question - Larry also showed the Miracle Theater's full-page ad in USA TODAY. Kathy made a good point - that a full page ad in USA Today is NOT cheap, and this is the way they are spending their money? She even joked that she was going to go work for THEM, because there's no way the channel her program is on would buy a full page ad for her.
My opinion? We Christians are pretty silly sometimes. If we ignore things like this rather than taking out full page ads, then they backfire. If we'd ignored Kathy, then she'd have not gotten any press out if, and... "Whoopty do, Kathy who?" Also, I hadn't thought about the Miracle Theater's motives possibly being suspect - that's an interesting thought.
-Nathan
Hey there folks.
This may sound ultra snooty, but why should an over-blown church production speak for the rest of us in the entertainment community. It's not as if anyone asked Miracle Theatre to represent us. The ad is pretty embarassing for them, if you ask me. That statement is sort-of self condemning (they almost put themselves down). Yes, ignoring her maybe the best protest of all. And in the end, WHO CARES! So, she's annoyed by Christians.
My first response when I heard Kathy Griffen's remarks at the untelevised Emmy Awards were "Oh my gosh, she pulled it off….she got herself more publicity than A -lister Sally Field got for being bleeped at the televised Emmys." It seems to Kathy's way of thinking the more outrageous the stunt the more likely she will be noticed by the media and her peers in Hollywood. Kathy's show on Bravo is all about getting off the D list and making it on to the A list or at least getting the perks.
Someone once said, "There is no such thing as bad publicity." Kathy certainly seems to subscribe to that philosophy.
Having said that, my mouth remained firmly agape because of the audacity of the comment. As a Christian there is no more scared a word than the name of Jesus, and here she had not only blasphemed that sacred name but then announced that she was willing to make her award her god…..not funny!!!
She put her immortal soul in jeopardy for a laugh? Only she will have to answer that question before God himself. She is an Irish Catholic by upbringing, (as she has referred to her parents on various occasions on Bravo), so she knew exactly what she was saying and how it would play, not only in Hollywood but across America.
The theater folks in Pigeon Forge, TN are for different reasons, pursuing their own motives for garnering attention. Are they changing anybody's mind with that ad, doubtful? Are they painting Christians into a predictable corner, absolutely? Is all this theater being played out in the media in order to get our attention… well did it?
If you watch Hollywood awards shows you can expect outrageous behavior from time to time from some of the personalities. The Bible admonishes us to be discerning, to guard our hearts and guard our eyes, the responsibility is entirely ours.
That ad smells a bit like self-promotion and prideful arrogance. "We are proud to stand on the stage every night..." "We, we, we, we, we." I counted 10 "we's!" And where do they get off speaking for the "thousands of other Christians in the entertainment industry..."? Did they take a survey? No. How much more effective could they have been if they acknowledged her remarks, but simply said that "we in this little theatre community love you, Kathy Griffin, and so does your heavenly Father. Congratulations on your win!"? They could have used a photo graphic of a big bouquet of flowers (instead of them in their bathrobe costumes). Tell her you love her. Isn't that what your Saviour told you to do before He left? Didn't He tell you to expect to be hated and mocked? The ad repels, when it should attract. You should smell like "givers of grace" not "militant loonies" tooting your own horn.
What a great country we live in ... you can curse the name of Jesus and then run an ad supporting his name and then discuss the merits of each right here on this blog ... and not go to jail or be beheaded for it. ... In light of the first amendment wether on award shows, in ads, or on CSPAN, I thought this was interesting. http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=19031 First Amendment Center 09.12.07 WASHINGTON - Sixty-five percent of Americans believe that the nation's founders intended the U.S. to be a Christian nation and 55% believe that the Constitution establishes a Christian nation, according to the "State of the First Amendment 2007" national survey released today by the First Amendment Center ...
My opinion of the actions that were taken by the management of the theater hurt our ability to reach into the secular entertainment industry. Kathy is not a believer. She is full of sin... Like most of us. The broadcaster of the program has a civil responsibility to control what goes out over the air waves, however the words she used are part of the everyday vocabulary in the world she lives. Don't get me wrong... I am sick over her disregard of Christ.
I recently meet a guy named Michael Jr. who is a comic in LA and has appeared on many secular programs. He is a believer and God has gifted him with the ability to be real about his faith in front of other comics... like Kathy. These comics already have placed huge barriers around their hearts to protect themselves from "Christians". They see the hypocrisy of the church and they use it in their acts. The ad that was placed in the paper only adds fuel to that fire. It will only deepen the divide between those who love Christ and those who need him. It probably has destroyed much of the progress progress Michael has already made in that industry. I am sick over folks like those leading Miracle Theater and their disregard of those who have taken a stand WITHIN that industry.
I do have to say though that I agree with the baseline value system and standards of the management, creators and owners of the Miracle Theater. However do not see anything resembling Christ in the actions that they are pursuing through this action. I wish they would speak against the sin without destroying the bridge that so many are working so hard to build to reach these sinners. How about creating a petition that offers a place for people to sign up to lay down their lives for Kathy... To pray for her and others like her 24 hours a day, seven days a week... To quit their jobs and quietly attend every live show she appears in only to pray for those on stage, the crew and those in attendance... Not just for Kathy but for every TV and motion picture star... Not just the stars but the writers, producers and big check writers.
On the creative side of things the ad is poorly done. The picture is weak, the layout is weak and the fact that it's an AD in USA Today causes one to wonder how deep are the pockets of these guys! How many clean water wells could have been drilled in Africa for that much money?
Before you make a statement about the show not being "Broadway" calibure. You should see it. Put your money were your mouth is like The Miracle did. Also, before you start posting questions about motive... you call The Miracle and asks thier motive.You claim that christians are seen as too reactive to culture... Kathy's statement had nothing to do with lifestyles. It had everything to do with bashing Jesus' name.
Take it easy bro... its nothing personal... Phil is just wondering around...
This is my first time on this website. A friend told me about it so I thought I would check it out. I've read the above article and agree that most of the time it is Christians that are doing the most damage to the name of Christ. In my life, I admit that my rebellion and indifference can often times be as blasphemous as Kathy's comments.
So she made offensive comments expecting a backlash. A small theater stood up and spent a lot of money to, in your words, "react". I agree that Christians should be more proactive, but isn't reaction a type of action? Were you offended? Did this website release a statement or did anyone who has posted a comment written anything in support of Jesus in addition to what you have written here? It is easy to say they shouldn't have done this, but what have you done? Seems like most of the comments are more critical of fellow believers than of Kathy's statement. And while the article quoted Kathy, it was more of a statement in favor of Jesus than against Kathy.
What if Kathy was expecting a reaction and didn't get one? What does that say about Christians in this country? Many have said that nothing should've been done or said, but why not say something or do something? Instead of criticizing, try doing something that works better. Stand for Jesus, don't turn on your fellow brothers. Seems like the time to be silent in criticism is when someone who believes what you do, stands up for something you believe in, in a way you might not agree with.
Actually, there is a time to do nothing. Many times, Christians make a big deal out of something, which only draws more negative attention to the community. In this case, Kathy did expect a response, which is exactly why we shouldn't have responded. Do you actually think we're supposed to be parrots, jumping everytime we feel offended? How pitiful is that? Remember the movie "The Last Temptation of Christ"? Bad movie. Poorly written and directed. Stupid premise. All the critics panned it. But Christians felt "offended" and started protesting. Guess what? WE made the movie a success. We drew so much attention to it, people started buying tickets. Had we kept quiet, it would have disappeared into oblivion. Jesus didn't protest his questioning before Pilate. In fact, he chose NOT to answer certain questions. He understood the power of perception. We could learn a lesson.
"Many times, Christians make a big deal out of something, which only draws more negative attention to the community."
Agreed. And then Christians wonder why they're "persecuted" and made fun of on national television. Oh boo hoo.
Unfortunately the biggest, loudest mouths are usually the most annoying to the rest of us. It's one of the main reasons why people of certain races/religions/etc ARE persecuted, they wont shut up about it! Hold what you believe in your heart and realize no two people on this planet are going to think the same as you do. It's what makes us human; the ability to think for ourselves and not follow like blind sheep.
Sorry, the God of the Bible never told me to do what you are telling me to do. i am told to tell everyone I know the Good News about Jesus. I will not apologize for that either.
By the way:
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
Daniel wrote:
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
Okay, but what was wrong here (in my opinion) was the something the Miracle Theater did. What they could have done and what is the absolute best idea that's been put out about this so far on this comment page, was made by "Thunder":
Thunder wrote:
"How much more effective could they have been if they acknowledged her remarks, but simply said that "we in this little theatre community love you, Kathy Griffin, and so does your heavenly Father. Congratulations on your win!"?"
Bravo, Thunder.
-Nate
Hey, I have an idea........lets do what we seem to do best as Christians and attack eachother from within!! Why do we always have to do this to eachother. Our focus needs to be "out there." We are called to know God and make him known to others. We are called to speak to our generation and to confront our culture. There was clearly no attack against Kathy in the ad. I didnt see anything counter effective with it. All the celebrities have their platform handed to them so they can say anything they please and be heard around the world. It seems to me from what they said in the ad that this was their chance to have a platform and be heard. Let's all get off our HIGH horses about "our way is the best and only way to do things" and start working together to reach the world and stop letting slander against Christ be the only thing that people feel they can get away with.
Great idea Matt! So let's not ever call each other to account, encourage each other to do better, or publicly discuss how we can impact the culture more effectively. Let's just all make huge mistakes in the Lord! That will show them, bless God!
Yeah, I didnt say any of that. But don't also assume that this was a mistake. There was nothing done blatantly wrong, no attacks were made. Nothing "offensive" like that which was done from the opposite side. Just an elaborate mission statement for the country to see. I know it moved me with motivation. We can discuss all in the same, it doesn't mean we should ridicule someone or a group of people.
I understand what you're saying, Matt, but as I think about this situation, I find I have a Real Big Problem with this (and I alluded to it earlier). It was, I think, bad stewardship.
A full page B&W ad in USA Today costs over $100,000. If you are looking for ways to promote your company, it'll get your name out there (kinda), but is it going to up the percentage of non-Christians who need to hear the Gospel who come to you to hear it, or just the percentage of "choir members" who come to you to get their spiritual backs scratched?
Bottom line? I work in overseas missions, and I know a lot of ministries that provide for the actual physical and spiritual needs of people all over the world who could have used a $100,000 donation, and it would have been a lot more constructive (again, it's IMO). But, hey! It's their money, and I'm sure USA Today was happy to cash the check.
By the way, if you agree with what they did, you can go to their website and sign a petition that they've started as a result of this whole controversy. It's www.miracletheater.com. Phil, maybe you could go over there and invite them to come here and comment on this. I was going to do it, but it's your blog, so I thought I'd give it over to you.
-Nate
Thank you Nate. The things you said were very well placed and I do heavily respect your point of view. I too have extensive experience in Global missions it truly is where my heart is. I also have been blessed to have been right there on the front lines here in our own country with some of the strongest people of our faith. I can not in good conscience or in spirit compare an act like taking this ad out with feeding the hungry. If we took that stance we couldn't stop there. We would have to move on to all the "God themed" billboards, Christian media, and anything else that takes a supreme amount of money to operate that may not directly effect world missions. To me it is like apples and oranges in a sense. What I do see with all these other efforts is different ways that different people use to sincerely give mention to God and to glorify Him. The bottom line is this "million people for Christ" seems like something that is supposed to bring Christians together, not divide them. Especially when nothing morally or spiritually wrong was ever done.
I believe we Christians in America need a revolution of our understanding of persecution. We get offended at it. When people "speak all manner of evil against us", we cry foul, as if it is a great tragedy for spiritually dead lost people to make fun of us. When people denied His deity, mocked Him, and murdered Him, Jesus said "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." We are dealing with blind people. They don't know any better...yet.
Lost people do lost stuff.
Jesus said to rejoice when we are persecuted, and it is because persecution bears fruit. Throughout history we see the Gospel spreading faster amidst persecution. Just look at China today. It is one of those spiritual principles that seems to fly in the face of logic. "Unless a seed falls to the ground and dies, it cannot bear fruit."
Let's care about our lives less and embrace some persecution. It is in our reaction to the slander, the insults, etc that these people may see Jesus for the first time.
Going back to what Daniel wrote:
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
There is a difference between doing nothing and not dignifying what Kathy said with a response.
PS: It was a joke.
Again, I would like to reference the ad. While some may disagree with some of the wording, it is clearly not a statement against anything. It is a statement FOR Jesus in response to an offensive comment, not a joke, a comment directed to Jesus. No where did it say anyone was going to hell, there was going to be judgment, nothing like that.
And I do not know if I consider this persecution. But if in our response by simply stating what we believe with people they will come to understand that we don't (and shouldn't) wish harm to those like Kathy. We as believers want her to understand all of our need for grace and mercy.
There is a time to do nothing. But when is standing up for the name of Christ a wrong thing when it is done in a positive way? Some on here keep knocking ideas down while not really offering any positive suggestions? Do we keep doing nothing until nothing can be done?
By the way, is the Phil that keeps commenting, Phil cooke? his is the only name verified...
Yep. The "Phil" is Phil Cooke.
The Miracle Theater in Pigeon Forge spent $90,440 on a full-page advertisement in USA Today that ran nationally Monday, proclaiming "enough is enough."
Boy $90,440! That money could have been spent on a lot better things. The theater is sponsoring a petition on its Web site, http://www.miracletheater.com
So I went to sign this petition just to have my comment posted. I wrote:
"I'm a stand-up comic, and I understand both Kathy and your position. With all the different groups out there, it is exceeding difficult to not offend a few in a comedy career. Can't we all just get along? It's the Christian thing to do. I'm not surprised to hear that devout Christians are offended by Kathy's remarks. I was talking to my Buddhist friend about it and he thought she was hysterical. The reality is that, no mater what your beliefs are, there are no shortage of people who DON'T AGREE WITH YOU. Surround yourself with people who do agree with your beliefs, and don't fuss too much about the ones who don't, because you can waste your entire lives arguing and getting nowhere. Making a national to do about all this just puts Kathy in the spotlight. Let's face it, there are much worse celebrities out there driving drunk and endangering lives. If your beliefs are that Kathy will be going to hell for what she said, then that should be plenty. www.FunnyMexican.com"
Within a few minutes, my comment was pushed down to the next page because of all the offended Christians that signed after me. You'll also find many other people who signed and like myself thought the Christian groups were overreacting.
Lastly I would like to point out the most entertaining bit of irony. Next to the AP news article is a Google sponsored ad list that says "Kathy Griffin Tickets - on sale now"
1) I do believe indeed that is the man, the myth, the legend - Phil Cooke himself - posting as Phil. In part because he is the only verified one amongst us - primus inter pares, so to speak.
2) I'd just like to state for the record, Your Honor, that not all of us agree with the statement ""The Last Temptation of Christ"? Bad movie. Poorly written and directed. Stupid premise." Well, at least one of us doesn't. I leave it up to the bleachers to decide who that might be...
You asked: Was The Miracle Theater statement an appropriate response?Before I give my answer, readers should consider this: The Miracle Theatre, although an upstanding, wholesome entertainment venture is losing money by the day and faces possible closure, bankrupcy or both. Not enough people are buying overpriced tickets (at $38.97 with tax EACH!!!!!) to see a Christian play that lasts no more than a few hours. To make ends meet last spring, in the five or more theatres and other ventures they own in Pigeon Forge, Tennesse, the owners laid off or let go a huge portiion of their staff across their several businesses. This included everyone from the advertising and internet staff, to ticket sellers, stage and lighting crew and whatever backbone, behind the scenes employees might be cut from the budget. Of course, the Christian actors kept their jobs.Of those persons not permanently let go, the owners reduced their days of employment to as little as one day a week or reduced commissioned wages to a meagre per hour fixed rate. All in an effort to combat their loss of profit, lack of tourism to this area, lack of ticket sales, lack of consumer spending and to help only the bottom line of a failing company and the pocketed profit of owners.In a County where the average wage is $7.50/hr and most residents, both husband and wife, must work two and sometimes three full time jobs to make ends meet, you can imagine how many of their employees were hurt by the cut backs and lay offs instituted by the Miracle Theatre owners. Yes, the Miracle Theatre is wholesome enjoyable entertainment. Yes, I'm not only a Christian, but, have studied many other religions throughout my worldly travels and consider people of many faiths and beliefs to be among my dearest friends and professional cohorts. However........Was the Miracle Theatre's gesture of spending almost $100,000 on an advertisement to sell tickets to their theatre, announce that they are Christians and make any comment on the single statement of a no talent, classless individual with a big mouth, an appropriate response? You tell me!! The State of Tennessee has school boards that do not allow children to attend school unless they bring in a quota of toilet paper which school boards do not have money to buy. This County has families living below the poverty level, without food on the table, clothing on their backs, no health insurance, no hope or dream of ever attending university and couldn't even find the place on a map where Jesus was born because they have no concept of the real world outside of Tennessee. There are 100,000 ways to show you are a Christian, but, wasting money on a one time, one page advertisement that publicy reduces the Miracle Theatre to the theatrics and low standards of one tasteless woman is NOT proving that anyone connected to the Miracle Theatre is a Christian. It reduces Christianity to Capitalism!!! Regardless of what the copy said, the ad was not an appropriate response. It was not an acceptable use of funds and it in no way, shape or form proved anyone connected to the Miracle Theatre was a good Christian.If these people want to show their believe in Christianity, prove their faith and dedication to the word of Jesus...................don't talk, don't write......TAKE ACTION. Faith, Hope and Charity begin at home and should spread outward in actions. It does NOT begin with a $100,000 ad in USA Today (or any other publication) that won't result in accomplishing anything but lining the pockets of USA Today and advertising for The Miracle Theatre. Other years, these owners made so much profit from their business they took every one of their long standing employees on a cruise. This year, they laid a large portion off. More Christian acts??Personally, my husband and I don't have $77.94 to buy two tickets for their show. We'll have to settle for watching the Roman Soldier on the horse walking back and forth along the highway while offering tickets sales to ride a camel in the parking lot outside of the Theatre. This is enough Christian, capitalist entertainment for us and we'll take our hard earned money and support the charities and local children's foundations which we, ourselves, fund. If you want to come to Pigeon Forge and have a true religious experience.......Don't go to the theatre. Leave the City and the tourist traps, head for the Smoky Mountains and find religion, peace and true thought inside your own heart among the true miracle expanse of what God created for all to enjoy. Do remember that this Park is FREE and only you can find your beliefs inside yourself!!!! SHOW the world what's in you're heart.
I wonder if you could provide any links to support that this is the case with the Miracle Theater? I don't know if such links exist, but if they do, I'd be interested in reading up on it. If it is ture, then it would certainly horrify me, especially in light of the fact that they've taken out $100,000 full-page ad #2, as Phil reported.
If your wanting to know if what Kate said about the owners of the Miracle Theater is true, it is.
Thanks "Miracletheatreemployee" for coming forward. Sorry, Nate, I don't think there are any online links to back up anything I stated earlier. Pigeon Forge and the surrounding tourist areas are very small, somewhat closely knit communities and the Miracle Theatre layoffs and loss of income thing has been a rather a "community" affair throughout this year. It was just something that effected many real people when they lost their jobs. The truth is, I personally know far too many of the people who were let go under explanation that the owner(s) weren't making enough profit from their ventures to keep them on and had to cut back on staff. The first information came from the community people. The rest of what became public or advanced to the "rumor mill" comes from employees who still remain with the company and who all know the facts or hear "stuff" every day. People here are all directly connected whether it be by association, employment, customers, relationships or genetics. It was just something that happened to real people in a small area, not originally intended, I suppose, for the internet. How do you think I learned about this website? Sorry, Phil, but, it wasn't until the local "scandal" flew that I learned about you and looked into your background, your work and your position on this newspaper article thing. I found out about this site and it's postings from employees and/or former employees who are now passing it around!I am greatly amused and entertained, though, by some of the latest comments posted on this site, particularly things that Josh said, such as: "Who is assuming that this money came out of "our budget?" Let's see...the owner(s) of the Miracle theatre own, just in this area, four theatres (some doing well, others, so so), a catering service that provides meals for some of the theatres as dinner shows, a country music memorabilia (Hard Rock cafe style) restaurant, a small diner that has terrible food, but, comes with great parking facilities next to one of the theatres, a ticket selling outlet AND rents their theatres to at least two other musical or entertainment groups so they can put on their individual productions. The money didn't have to come from The Miracle Theatre budget, but, exactly where does Josh THINK it came from? The Miracle Theatre, alone, was "reported" as having been "down" $70,000 in one of the late spring or early summer months. Not for the year, mind you----just for the month. Do I remotely suppose the funds for the newspaper ads came from the budget of the Miracle Theatre? Absolutely NOT! The money came from some budget, but, I doubt very highly that the Miracle Theatre, itself, funded the advertising campaign. Josh also wrote: "Whether the money that was given to spend on this ad was a waste of money is a matter of opinion." Ok, so it's my opinion, but, my opinion, and others is......and always will be.....that it was a useless, waste of funds that could have been used more wisely in 100,000 (or more) directions that could brought good things to the world other than lining the bottom of a bird cage the morning after the USA Today articles were read. Just for clarification, as earlier stated, I, personally, do use my excess cash to support foundations, fund my own charities, some of which I created, and greatly support the children and special interests and needs of this County in more ways than one. If I won the lottery tomorrow you'd see a long list of great things done with dollars, but, I wouldn't even begin to think of giving $100,000 or more to a newspaper to announce that I was trying to claim, or trying to prove that I was a Christian. Not when so much else is needed in this area, or in this world. Every price goes up, sure, and the U.S. economy is (contrary to political press releases) hurting. People just aren't spending and traveling and that's a known fact by everyone from manufacturers, business owners, suppliers to the consumer. I am wondering why, though, it is necessary to raise ticket prices so sky high in an attempt to partially fill an empty theatre, when keeping them lower, or actually reducing them might otherwise fill up an empty building. People here, as well as many of the visiting tourists, can't justify spending almost $100 on two theatre tickets (this isn't Broadway), but, if the show is good, and an appealing draw to the public, you could fill more seats on a more regular basis and pay that extensive overhead. Why do you think so many businesses here have "Sevier County Days" when locals can get into attractions and shows for $5.00 or even free during slow times of the year? IT FILLS UP SEATS THAT WOULD OTHERWISE BE VACANT and allows people that don't have income to waste to buy a ticket they couldn't otherwise afford. You can't run a business on $5.00 a person, but, $39.00 a person is just too much. Check the track record of the IMAX theatres. They put on a 45 minute movie every hour on the hour, seven days a week in many places across the country. When they raised their ticket prices to $12.00 each, people stopped coming, seats were empty and the movie continued to run every hour on the hour whether there were 4 people in the theatre or 400. Several years ago they shut down a large number of their theatres including the one in this County. Higher prices didn't mean higher attendance nor higher profit. IMAX faded from the picture in many areas. The real point I should return to is this: I, and many others, don't care what your beliefs are; don't care what God (or Goddess) you believe in; aren't the least bit interested in how you run your business or screw people to line your pockets with profit. If you have to spent thousands of dollars to profess to the world that you are of any particular belief, just to get others to believe it, when the money could be used for so much other good, then you wasted a lot of good cash on a losing proposition. Frankly, I couldn't care less if David Fee was an Athiest or a Christian. I have no respect for his actions, business sense or behavior regardless what he is. WHO he is, is all that matters. I believe he's a profiteering Capitalist who wastes money advertising himself and his business for no good reason. So he, his employees and his theatre are all now Christians. Does the world care? Did his advertising articles convince people? Did it further a cause, come to a conclusion, benefit anyone? It wasted a lot of cash. David Fee is pulling out of The Miracle Theatre for the good of the Theatre? It doesn't look that way. Perhaps he should take his newly found profession of faith and stick with the Theatre. He could back up the other self-proclaimed Christians, turn it around into a money making venture and put the cash profit back into this lower economic community for a start. THAT, would be professing "God's work" and several here could supply him with a long list of needs that could be fulfilled. Afterall, he's got how many other businesses from which to draw his mortgage payment and vacation money?
First off, I work for the Miracle theater. Second.....I have posted a rather long response on our position in Phil's blog for today. Go check it out, you will find a lot of answers there. I have been asked if I would address kate's comments and I will. First off, several of the facts she gave about our company were either not true or not the complete truth. i will take the time to comment on a couple. We are not closing down the theater.....we are already committed to run for another year. As far as losing money by the day....every day is different. This is the entertainment industry, some days are better than others. Right now we are having tremendous crowds because of the approaching fall season. Even on Broadway very very few shows make back their initial investment. The price of the tickets had to go up in the middle of this season based on the lack of tourism for this year do to many reasons including gas prices. You have to be able to operate. Even the price of bread goes up because of that. Our organization is known for it's charitable giving. Please check my other post for details. Who is assuming that this money came out of "our budget?" Whether the money that was given to spend on this was a waste of money is a matter of opinion. I can tell you that to us it is extremely important. Where does every spare dollar of your's go? Do you give sacrificially to missions, another ministry, your church, or do you invest it into a proejct like a book or something else to build the kingdom of God off of one of the many other parts of the Body of Christ. Kate certainly didnt take the time in all of her "investigating" to know about the hundreds of thousands of dollars spent before in charitable giving. Folks, there is a BIG picture that certain people aren't taking into consideration. Dont just see things through your limited scope. Trust that we have sought God in what we are doing. You may not understand it but then again this particular thing may not be your passion. At the end of the day we can say that no moral or theological wrongdoing has taken place from our side.What we need is unity and for children of God to stand together as one voice to proclaim Him as such. I can also say that the thousands of people that have come to the theater over the past 7 shows this week since all of this began have been extremely enthusiasticaly supportive of what we are doing. I have yet to hear anything negative come from anyone's mouth. We have told everyone what has happend, of course many already knew. They want a voice as well to glorify God in this way and that is what is at the heart of the matter.
Thanks, Josh, for the response.
-Nate
Ask Josh about David Fee's (the owner of the miracle) beliefs! The man is an Athiest by his own admission.
Yes, David Fee was an atheist but as of Saturday afternoon, he is a believer!!! It's taken a long time for this man to come around, but we(employess at the miracle) have been praying for him since day 1.
Honestly, I think it took him seeing us stand up for something and believe whole-heartedly about it so much that we would put our self in the media spotlight just to say "Enough is Enough". I think that's what broke him.
A few weeks ago he told us that he was going to pull himself away from The Miracle because he knows that he's not qualified enough to run it because he's not in the right place spiritually. Doesn't sound like an atheist to me, sounds like someone afraid of letting God be God.
Obviosly "Miracleemployee" you are NOT a Miracle Employee so please change your name. If you were you wouldn't have posted this comment because you would have already known about David's change!
Well, if nothing else comes of this ad and petition, that news alone is enough to make me glad. I still have reservations about the amounts spent, but am thrilled to hear that this man has decided to turn his life over to JC.
-Nathan
I'm sorry, but am I the only one who finds it a little "convenient" he suddenly found God two weeks AFTER putting in a petition to defend "his" religion? And now he's suddenly "saved" it makes everything OK?
To me that doesn't sound like a miracle, it sounds like a fraud to cover his behind.
Thank you Kate, miracletheateremployee (and Miracle Employee below). I'm glad you have enough guts to stand up with more reliable information than I could provide. The fact I'd only heard of these accusations as rumors before makes me all the more concerned about the intentions of this whole scam. Rest assured if I had any interest of EVER shelling out eighty dollars for two tickets I'll take my business elsewhere in the county.
You know, it is sad that you can have four or five people comment on these two blogs who work there and have completely shown the love of Christ in the words that they have said and then you have one or two come on here and completely slam the work and throw accusations out there and you become so easily moved against ever going or supporting their ministry. Well, such is life I guess. Hey everyone!!! There are SOME GREAT THINGS HAPPENING OVER ON THE OTHER BLOG I think you should all go and read. especially you Renee. Why have we let this become what it is? We are not being responsible Christians here. That is to everyone here who ACTUALLY ARE Christians!!
Renee,
The only thing we have to go on is the testimony of folks here, but if it's true that the man became a believer recently, regardless of the timing, isn't that something to be happy about? I don't feel qualified to question all of that - I'm not sitting on the Throne.
I've made my feelings plain here, regarding the use of such a sum of money in this way, but what it comes down to, is that it is their money - they earn the money - and it's their business how they spend the money. Personally, I think your use of the words "fraud" and "scam" are a bit harsh; if they were a traditional ministry, and raised support to operate, I might feel different. However, on their website, I couldn't find anything suggesting they ask for donations. So, bottom line: it's their money to spend how they feel led.
On the other hand, I do want to mention that I think that folks are off base when they bring up the old "how do you spend your money?" argument to counter criticism of the money being spent this way. We're not talking about individuals here, but an organization that, meaning to or not, is perceived as speaking for the rest of the Christian community.
At the same time, how the money was spent is important. The manager of the company talked about changing people's hearts and minds; I'd like to see some proof that these ads have altered the entertainment industry's view of Christians and Christ for the better. From what I've seen and heard, I don't think it has - and that's my beef. Maybe it emboldened some Christians, and that's cool, but let's call an apple and apple, and realize what's happened because of this whole situation with relation to the cause of Christ and the entertainment industry.
- Nate
The manager of the company talked about changing people's hearts and minds; I'd like to see some proof that these ads have altered the entertainment industry's view of Christians and Christ for the better. From what I've seen and heard, I don't think it has - and that's my beef.
You hit the nail right on the head. It's done a lot to change my heart and mind... though not in a positive light. It makes me ashamed.
Even if the ad had been free to put in the newspaper I think they went about it the wrong way. Like someone said earlier, what do they hope to do with this signed petition once they're done with it? No one so far has clearly answered this for me. So your voice "is going to be heard", but by whom? I could gather a million people to stand in an open field and scream to the heavens "I don't like how people treat me" and it wouldn't get me anywhere. What do they plan to DO and ACCOMPLISH once all signatures are in? The ad (and their website) doesn't tell me anything more than "I'm pissed off, sign our petition and give us hits on our website". Yay. Congratulations. Now what?
I agree no spiritual faction should be mocked, but to me they're not building up a rock solid case on the "why".
Dear Justin,
You commented about how I must not be an employee so I need to change my name. You stated that if I were I would have known about David's change. Are we talking about a REAL change or a profession of change? There is a difference between becoming a Christian and professing to have made a decision for Christ because your butts in a sling. Do I know what Mr. Fee's real heart is? No. Neither do you. He may very well be serious about his sudden change of heart and if he is GREAT. But what happens if he's making a last ditch effort to skirt the whole ( I don't believe in God yet I own a "Christian" theater and just spent a lot of money that has not resulted in the desired effect because people are finding out that I do not believe in the very thing that I am supposedly standing up for)? Sounds a little suspect to me. But do I know his heart? No. Do you? No. Does God? Yes. Isnt that all that really matters? I know you Justin and I know at what point in the Miracle's history you became involved. You have not put in the time to fully know the depths of the actions and attitudes that have come from the "Christian" company that you work for. The best advice I have for you Justin is to ensure that your own heart and convictions are in order. If they are where they need to be your good. If they are not, (as most of us are not) remove the tree brother. By the way what show did you come from last season?
"The Last Temptation of Christ" was based on a novel by a man of the Greek Orthodox persuasion, Kassansakis? When the book was published there was no splash or backlash...it was ignored. I actually know someone that was so struck with the humanity of Christ in the film, he went on a search for Jesus and became a believer. It is amazing what the Holy Spirit can do with what we give Him, ain't it? But for the record, yes, Christians are persecuted. I was fired once for asking to pray for an actor's wife who was in the hospital with double pneumonia. It happens. But now to Kathy. For Pete's sake! The girl is lost! Why not pray for her instead? How hard is that? The guy who fired me? I started to pray for him and he is also seeking after Jesus now. I actually ran into him and he was so lovely to me when he saw me. He was sorry. Did my prayers move him closer to Jesus? Maybe...maybe not but it did change me. Imagine her grief and bitterness over the loss of her beloved father. I was totally crazy for a year after my dad's death...Cut the girl some slack and LOVE her instead! This woman has logged more hours overseas to entertain the troops, even though she does not support the war, than just about any of her contemporaries. There is good and bad in everyone. It is the spark of the divine that is the good so even Kathy Griffin has a piece of the Lord's image in her. Let's just keep praying that will become more and more pronounced as time goes by. How about having the Lord place Christians that will love her in her path? Let's do the loving thing first! Imagine the Christian that she will be! Loudmouthed and outspoken...She must be fighting pretty hard against God's plan for her. Wouldn't it be great if prayer for her ACTUALLY WORKED? Uh...that's a bit of ironic humor in case anyone missed it.
I believe Phil's words "Let's stop reacting to the culture, and start acting. Instead of being against everything, let's become known as the people are for something" have a lot of power. Instead of reacting to foolish words of an actress, perhaps we should be more focused on producing the kind of art & education that can make christians and non-believers alike want to know more about the God we serve. The enemy may have a current stronghold on "Hollywood" but I believe that spirit filled believers can not only break that stronghold, but blow it away if done with the right heart.
I believe the problem here is not the moral implications of if The Miracle Theatre should have o not have publish the Ad, but the way they chose to.
I do believe like Amanda (a couple of post above) that instead of asking for a petition, prayer and showing her the LOVE on US would be a better and more effective thing to do, and surely something that would make an impression in the Hollywood community.
Are we ready to start sharing love instead of think about non believers as enemies. Lets think about them as potential believers.
Well my comment is this. I was in the meeting where the owner of the Miracle (David Fee who is a self professed Athiest) said "We are doing this because if the numbers do not go up we will be closed inside of a year. I do not have a problem with a business (event a "Christian" business) needing to make money.
My problem is this... David Fee (the owner of Fee Hedrick Family Entertainment) which owns the Miracle has one of the worst reputations in the theater business. He will tell you himself that he does not believe in God, Jesus or any of the "Crap" that those "Christians" believe in. When asked why the Miracle? His reply was "Don't you think the people in this town would pay to see a Jesus show"?
I am telling you all this to let you know that the Miracle is a total fraud. Don't get me wrong, the hearts of some of the cast and some of the management of the Miracle are genuine and they are really there for the "ministry" but the overall motivation of the Miracle is to get into the pockets of the "Christians" that buy tickets. T-Shirts, Popcorn Specials, 2 for 1 deals with other Fee Hedrick Shows / Eating establishments are the order of the day.
The Miracle started out 2 years ago as a "Professional theater". "We are not a church, ministry or anything other than a professional theater" stated David Fee from the stage of the Black Bear Jamboree (one of his other theaters). Then when numbers were not what he wanted he said to all of us " We must not be "Christian" enough"! All eyes were on the cast, crew and management of the Miracle. They hired this total fraud of a Christian woman to come in and conduct AYCE interviews. AYCE stands for Are You Christian Enough. We actually had to submit to interviews that asked us "Are you a Christian"? "What makes you a Christian"? "Do you go to Church on Sunday"? NO?! "You must not be a Christian then"! And people were either transfered or let go. There was one dancer (JB) who was fired because he was heard using "Foul" language on stage. When the truth is that David Fee was heard saying "Now that we are a for profit ministry we can fire all the fags we want".
Now! David is professing that he has "Seen the light" and has comitted his life to Jesus Christ. If that is true, OMG!!! Thats fantastic! BUT given the comments and knowledge that has gotten out about his Athiestic lifestyle is it not it a little convienient?
I am not writing this to "Rat" on my employer cause God knows that if they find out who this is, I will be FIRED on the spot! I am saying this because I am TIRED of the "Christians" today that are so MILK TOAST it makes me want to throw up. One one hand I am proud of David for taking out the ad. This is because he has allowed US the opportunity to have a voice that otherwise we would not have! There is no way that a cast member could ever stand up to Hollywood on my own in this manner! Yet in another way I am saddened because I know for a FACT that God is no where in or around the Miracle theater. He is not welcome there. He never has been.
Maybe that will change now if what David proclaims is true. If it's not, and he is playing a game God help him.
Based on your comments friend, YOU are the fraud! No true believer would cause descension from within if they truly wanted to see God's work done! The only intentions for anything you have said here is to hurt and destroy. I have seen God move in the villages of India among the few believers there. I have been overwhelmed by the power of God right before my very eyes among the underground church in China. God has allowed me to travel across this country into hundreds and hundreds of churches preaching His word and mobilizing Christians. He has blessed me to be able to me mentored by some of the greatest people of our faith in this country! I have seen God move, He has changed my life completely and I live for him daily!! I also know that He IS present daily at the theater. His Word says that "whereever two or more gather together in His name I will be in the midst thereof." We seek His face daily to see Him move among us and the people who come. And moreover, I sense His power every show and know the lives that have been transformed as a result of this theater. You sound like a disgruntled employee IF you indeed work there. Based on the things you've said that I know are not true I have doubts. Well, I havent hid behind any trick names. I have been very open and honest. Based on your point of view you have made it very clear which side of the line you stand on.....it isnt our side....so to be honest....my heart is saddened for you. God can heal anyone's wounds. All you have to do is ask. It sounds as if you have been through a lot emotionally. I am sorry for that but this isnt the way to feel better about yourself. Do not trick yourself into being okay with being dishonest. Folks, take that "miracleemployee's" comment with a grain of salt. People are just looking for a way to take a jab and possibly from within. That would probably be the plan of attack that Satan and his dorky demons would take anyway, right. I ask for all to PRAY for and with us as we seek to serve and honor him!
friend. thats a broad term isnt it. listen i am not interested in getting into a verbal bashing session with you. i have no interest in arguing or debating the finer points of this battle that the our theater is involved in. i know what i know and you know what you claim to know. i am not interested in making you see my point of view nor trying to make you agree with me. i see in you the tendancy that i see in most christians. a desire to spew scripture and verbal acrobatics intended to snow the common sinner into seeing things your way. only thing i have to say to you is I love you regardless of your feelings for me.
I said friend and I would hope to mean it. I consider everyone I work with a friend. My intentions are not to verbally bash and through prayer I choose wisely how to use scripture. Given the info that you have made known I have to assume you are a Christian. When it comes to that fact as a brother or sister in Christ we are told to confront eachother in our wrongdoings. Being a Christian I hold you to a higher standard than the world and I am going to say things to you like I would tell a family member.....straightforward and passionately. I would love to talk to you one on one but you choose to hide under an anonymous name. I can't help that. You made a very bold statement about God and our theater. It was BOLD enough for me to comment back. This isnt a grey issue. It is black and white. I haven't been in the entertainment industry long, just a few short years; however, I have been involved in full time ministry for 12 years. That doesn't make me an authority but it does give me experience and wisdom. Now understand clearly.....I am not talking about my feelings FOR you or about you here, I am commenting on what you said. Your comments on God not being at the theater or welcomed or whatever are completely ludicris. There are far more (than myself), "blameless" and unbelievably committed Christians we share a stage with daily that would HIGHLY disagree with that fact and well.....they already do. God literally picked me up from where I was and hand delivered me to this theater. I wasnt looking for it and I didnt audition for it by my intentions. He brought it into my life. I didnt do it on a whim. I had to move. I didnt choose to stay in my comfort zone. I didnt choose this job because it was convenient. And I say all that to show the importance of my seeking God in all of this. He has shown me where my place is here and why this ministry exists. He has also given me unbelievable peace about returning again next year. He is all through this place. I have pastors and other believers telling me the same thing every day. They usually comment that the most moving thing wasnt even about the production itself but just the Holy Spirit that seemed to encompass much of the cast as a whole. Anyways, I do not know who you are but even if I did I wouldnt have hard feelings for you. I would want to sit with you and hear you out from top to bottom and have you do the same with me. Friend, I am called to fill my heart with scripture and use it when it is appropriate. I have never had one believer in all these years tell me what you just did about spewing out the scripture to manipulate. I am sorry if you misunderstood my intentions or my words. It is not to my gain that I have taken the time to dialogue with you and many others here but for my Father's gain. I hope that one day we can talk about this face to face because until that day happens you will always carry this inside you and remember it whenever you see me. I will never know. I love you as well and hope to see you extremely happy and blessed with wherever God leads you after this year.
josh after this year i will be at the miracle. i have already negotiated my contract for next year. so i will be there right along side you. why i am there or remaining there is because like you God also up rooted me and moved me across the country to do what i had been called to do. in my statment that God is no where in that building i mean that as an official position by the owner who until recently wanted nothing to do with God used Gods name as a tool to pay back the 15million. i have always been a person who believes that actions speak louder than words. i have been all over the world and have performed on stages from sydney to paris. i have been in christian theaters and non christian theaters. then there is the miracle which is a non christian theater trying to make people think that its a christian theater. sure there are christian people such as yourself and other members of the cast and crew that are real but there are many people there including the ownership that are better actors than we are. back when we all started things were a lot different than they are now. some things have improved and other have gotten worse. the miracle theater is not a church nor should it be. it was not designed to be that way yet that is what it has been made into. with bringing on people that were incharge of spiritual compatability i think they called it was unlike anything we as a cast had ever seen. all emphasis was placed on presenting a christian appearance and no consideration was even placed on ministering to those of us on the inside. we were made to feel unwelcome if we did not come from pa or from liberty. we were made to feel unwelome and unqualified if we did not attend little click parties that were thrown. man they even took names of those of us who did not or were not able to attend the official dedication of the theater. bob and sandy were walking around with a note pad taking the names of the employees that were there. im not making this up i saw them with my own two eyes. tennessee t even said that those who were there must be the only ones who were serious about God. how arrogant. granted this year the chrisitan boot camp attitude has subsided a bit but until recently the foundation was the same. david became a christian recently which makes me happy. he is someone that i have been praying for for a long time. i am excited to see what happens next. someone wrote on here something about if God can use david as he was how powerful can he be now. i wonder the same thing. i just hope that he is serious and that he did not do this to try to take the heat off of his reputation. i do not know his heart and neither does anyone at work. only he and God know the truth. we will know when we see the fruit right? i really hope that the fruit comes to the front because i want nothing more than to see the miracle survive. unfortunately i will never be able to reveal who i am because i know what kind of hunting parties are formed to hunt down people who speak their mind. ive seen it to many times to think that it would not happen to me. they may have changed but i know they have not changed that much. I need my job and i love to perform. i am ministering to peopl who attend the shows just as you are. God has put these issues on my heart and mind just as he has you. my intent is not to hurt or to destroy it is to tell the whole story ugly and all. the healing cannot begin until the truth (all of it) is told. we will never be taken seriously as a ministry or a theater until the little hidden secrets are told. my heart is for the miracle and the mission of the miracle. my heart is for God and the sacrifice Jesus made for me. maybe the wording i used early on was wrong but i will not say im sorry for not wanting to be a part of the lies that have been generated to put on a front. if the ads in usa today have done nothing else, they have at least gotten people talking and I am not sorry for that. I love you Josh
I too am an employee of The Miracle, and I've been there from the beginning. I'm proud of the stand the theater is taking and I support and respect management and everyone involved in the campaign. I must say I am bothered by the "miracleemployee" comments above (even though without a real name, it doesn't have much credibility). If your intent was not to "hurt or destroy," I wish you would have chosen your words more carefully. You've made some bold and disconcerting comments about Sandy, for whom I have a great deal of respect, and also about Mr. Fee, who I believe has been honest and forthright from the beginning. I think Josh said it best when he said, "What we need is unity and for children of God to stand together as one voice to proclaim Him as such." I didn't come from PA or Liberty either, but I know that God brought me there, and I've always felt I had a place there - and I believe His presence has been welcomed there from the start. We went into this national campaign united for one cause - to inspire Christians to be unashamed of what we believe. Please, let's stand united. Love & Respect - Frosty
My comments about Sandy and David may be hard to hear but that makes them no less true. You may not like what I have to say because they are your friends but that makes my statements no less true. Frosty you were there in the begining and you know that the things ive said are true. you ma not like them because i have no problem telling the little dark secrets that they are trying so hard to keep. no i do not wish to hurt and destroy howver that does not stop them from forming a hunting party to hurt and destroy me now does it? or did you not know about that?
sometimes the truth hurts. if we dont like the message we need to change it. i have no beef with you or sandy or david. as a christian it is also my duty to confront just as ive been confronted. difference is that im not out on a head hunting party.
you can react all you want. you know what i am saying is true. to admit anthing less would be to lie to yourself. i have nothing against you frosty. dont make this a personal attack on me.
What employee of the Miracle would be available to write on this blog at 7:10 pm on a Tuesday?
the server that this site is hosted on is on the west coast. THREE hours earlier than it is here. come on.
I know exactly who you are......................
I'm extremely disappointed in all the negative assumptions being made about this group of our fellow Christians. Who are we to say that they didn't pray about these ads and God gave them the go-ahead including the specific words to write? If God instructs someone to do something, should their decision to obey or disobey Him be based on what another Christian (like you or I) deems logical or appropriate? Of course not, but that's what some are strongly insinuating in these posts.
With regards to the cost of the ads, what if someone sponsored the ads for them or what if, they, as a group, have just been financially blessed? Based on the criticism of some, many other Christian individuals, groups and ministries would fall under the "grossly overspending" category. Producing movies would definitely fall under that category. Again, using the same logic of some who posted, we could also say, "Just think of all the Christian projects that could have been accomplished with all the money spent on making Christian movies." Bottom line: Isn't defending our Lord priceless?
Do we really know how the ads personally impacted the individuals or groups who read them (other than our own opinion and those of a few)? No, we don't. Only God knows how each reader was impacted. Instead of being tentative and suspicious about the group's intentions, shouldn't we just pray that, regardless of what their motives were, that God use the ads for His glory? He is the only one who knows the true intents of each person's heart. If the ad stirred up even one Christian to be more emboldened to stand up for Jesus, isn't that worth the money spent? Our individual relationships with the Lord are unique. To point a finger and say, "You're not doing it the right way because that's not the way I would do it" demonstrates outright spiritual arrogance.
It is true that Jesus turned the other cheek and taught us to do so. However, there were times that His actions demonstrated His repugnance for sin: John 2: 15, 16 (New Int'l Version) "So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"" In Matthew 23, Jesus confronts religious hypocrites and calls them "hypocrites", "fools", "serpents" and "vipers" to their faces.
Sometimes we Christians won't make a stand for the Lord because we just don't want to look like fools; we don't want to be embarrassed or rejected. This seems to be the concern here - what the world will think of us. If we're really taking the time to seek God's face with an open heart, does it matter what the world thinks? No wonder so many of our religious freedoms are on the verge of being yanked from under us. Look at the Jews, Muslims as well as other religious groups. When an individual or group offends them, they make a bold statement as a large, united group and on so many occasions, things change in their favor. How can we unite and have a powerful impact when we are so quick to tear down one another?
1 Corinthians 13: If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Interesting that you use Jesus driving the money changers from the temple as an example. Exactly who do you think the money changers were? They were people working for religious leaders, providing the animals for sacrifice. But guess what? They were doing it wrong. They weren't being sensitive to the Holy Spirit, OR being sensitive to the place. They started out providing a good service, but it got distorted, why? Because no one before Jesus stepped up to say something out it. If everyone took your advice, and just loved everyone, and refused to discuss the possibilities or potential problems. It would have been real love for someone to step up to the plate and fix the problem before Jesus had to clean house...
Phil - You're putting words in my mouth because I never stated that all we should do is love everyone and refuse to discuss possibilities and potentials. If that were the case, I wouldn't be here discussing this issue.
My point about Jesus getting angry at the money changers is that there are times when we are to not speak out publicly against sin and there are times when we are to. Only the Holy Spirit can show us what to do on a case by case basis as we pray. It's not dependent upon someone's self-absorbed opinion or an intellectual formula...and you hit the nail on the head - NOTHING HAPPENED UNTIL JESUS STEPPED UP AND SAID SOMETHING ABOUT IT! The Miracle Theater group felt led to step up and say something - and they did. I applaud them for that.
Well said - however, my point is that in a media driven culture, simply standing up and saying something about it might not always be the best and most effective strategy. I never doubted their sincerity, and still don't. But it's a question of strategy. Perhaps here's a better example:
When missionaries approach a cannibal tribe, they don't protest outside the village, call them names, put an ad in the paper, or complain that they eat people. Missionaries develop a relationship with the tribe, earn their trust, and become part of the community. Once they do that, the tribe is far more open to listening to their message.
So why can't we do that with Hollywood? Hollywood is simply filled with sinners just like us. Do you really think that a confrontational approach works? When people get mad at you does it soften your attitude toward them? Nope. I wish we could view Hollywood as a mission field, develop a relationship with those in the entertainment industry, support the hundreds of believers who are there already, and then speak into their lives.
I have yet to meet a single Christian who was brought to the faith by criticism, humiliation, or protest.
You're questioning whether a confrontational approach would really work. That's why I gave that example of Jesus being confrontational with the money changers because sometimes that type of an approach is called for. Of course we need strategy, but the strategy has to come from the Holy Spirit, not from our natural minds. Too often, we turn to our natural minds for the answers. Our past experiences or education have absolutely nothing to do with being led by the Spirit. There are people I've dealt with that respond positively to a more confrontational approach, whereas some respond better to a non-confrontational one. It's just like raising children; Each one is different and different approaches work for each child. Some require more severe methods of discipline while others don't. That's why we need God's specific instructions for each case set before us.
Many Christians do indeed view Hollywood as a mission field and many are having a positive impact as they seek the Lord with a humble heart. I like what Joyce Meyer said: "Be positively sure that when you hang out with the world that you are the one actually affecting them as opposed to them infecting you." (non-verbatum)
But we often forget that the money changers Jesus tossed out were the religious people. There's no record to my knowledge of Jesus confronting the non-believing culture. He didn't go into a Roman guardhouse and turn over the tables. Never forget Paul's note in I Corinthians 5:12 - "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside."
Phil, I guess I would like to know what your interpretation of "non-believing culture" is. My first reaction is to say the culture who does not believe in Christ's message either by choice or out of ignorance. Going off of my definition.....you bet He confronted them. His message came and began with Him and one by one he exposed each person with His message. he confronted many. MANY!! I am not going to go off and start listing because there would be too many and I think all should go read the New Testament for themselves. Now, Jesus did confront the so called "religious crowd" differently than others because they really should have known better. They were held to a higher standard. He was very stern and directly confrontational with them. To the average lost person he would rebuke their sin, heal them if necessary, give them grace and mercy and then would always reconcile with them. Reconciliation always follows Confrontation when it comes to Jesus.
By "confronting", I'm talking about harsh, critical, and in your face confrontation - the style that so many Christians use today when dealing with cultural issues like abortion, homosexuality, or entertainment. Not about using understanding or engaging in a relationship. Jesus dealing with the woman at the well was a perfect example. He spoke the truth about her life, but didn't humiliate or criticize. In fact, she was so impressed with the encounter she ran and told her friends about this amazing man. A good lesson to learn in how to engage the non-believing culture. I always tell Christian filmmakers to "make a great movie first." Before you put your viewpoint or religious perspective into the story, make sure it works as a movie first. Even if a viewer doesn't buy into the message, I want them to walk away saying, "Man that was a great movie." That ensures them being open to the next encounter.
Okay, then I feel certain that it is suffice to say that "we" were not confronting in the way you have described. I was a little confused with how your response laid out. It seemed as though we were being labled in that manner. Sorry about that. I just wanted to check with you. Thanks!!
My thoughts about the ad were more about it being reactionary. As believers, I sometimes am frustrated that the only way the world sees us is because we're mad about something - in this case, Kathy's comments. We don't like dancing, drinking, movies, entertainment, abortion, etc. Some of those things are OK to be against, however, if we're not careful, we become known to the culture as the people who are against everything, when in truth we have more to be "for" than anyone... We're supposed to be a light to the culture, and a light doesn't repel, it draws people closer...
Phil, I couldn't agree with you more. That is why we made it very clear in our original letter what we stood for. There were several things mentioned there. Also, we have so moved on from Kathy Griffen. We never meant for her to be the central figure here. She was just the "straw" that broke the camel's back. We dont want her to lose her job, we dont want to pickett or protest her concerts, we are just stating we do not take it lightly when someone slanders our God. We used that as a platform to show that there were many Christian entertainers out here in the country who use our God given talents for Him and we proudly take a stand in honor and glory of Him. The million names is designed to give others who feel the same way to have the outlet and a voice to make it known that there are actually more than 40-50 people here in East Tennessee who believe that way. I like your thought process on being "reactionary" though. I really do. Thanks
Phil,
My name is G. Michael Smith and I chimed in on the other blog Miracle Theater Places Another Ad. I am the former Technical Director for the Miracle and was there in the begining until February of this year. The whole Kathy Griffen thing was brought to my attention by some friends of mine that are still working there. I came across your web site via blogs and posts that were sent to me by people on both side of this fence.
I am responding to this particular blog because I feel very strongly about the Miracle and what is happening as a result of these ad's. A very long story made short I left the Miracle in February out of protest. I was not happy with the direction the ownership was taking and some of the decisions that were made. I saw them as mistakes and the actions of the theater to be a "Show".
Since then I have moved on to other projects yet have remained close to the Miracle through friends and the fact that I still love the place. During that time I have been through the gauntlet both in a personal, physical and spiritual realm. I have been a Christian for over 30 years and have progressed to a point where I question a great many things regarding all things "CHURCH" as it is today.
The ad's have brought out the BEST and WORST of both Christians and Non-Christians alike. I read comments from people who obviously have some sort of inside information about the Miracle such as (miracleemployee and kate) and comments from other individuals that work there currently such as (Josh, Justin and Daniel) What I see taking place is something that I have been convicted about for many years now. That is the manipulation or re-direction of our FOCUS.
Let me be clear, I am not coming down on EITHER side here because both sides bring up points and information that I know to be true. What I am zoning in on is the fact that the entire FOCUS that we as Christians should have has been shifted from where it should be to this debate. As a Christian we should zero our FOCUS in on our personal relationship with Jesus. Instead our FOCUS tends to be on other things like How much did it cost? What's the man's personal beliefs? The FCC should sensor what people say? The Miracle is loosing money because of the personal life of it's owner! Well if I was in charge I would do it this way!
My question is this. What is the real issue here? Is it the things listed above? or is it the acts of people (both Christian and non) to try to take the FOCUS off of Christ and put it on things like arguing and bickering back and forth? The Bible says "Turn the other cheek ya'll". "Giv'em your coat if they take your shirt". I applaude those who have stood up in defense of their God and their employer! I just don't want it to develope into a lot of fist shaking because that is exactly what Satan wants.
Satan's greatest tool is the ability to take our FOCUS off of Christ and to put it on: What kind of shoes does HE have? Well, I don't have that kind etc.... or I think the offering should be at the begining of the service not at the end! or You must dress in your Sunday best when you go to Church cause anything else is disrespectful. or Well if I had $200,000.00 to spend I would certainly not take out an ad in a newspaper that will end up lining the bottom of a bird cage!
I am not saying that these people do not have a right to their opinion because they most certainly do! But what I am asking is What was the great commisson that was given to the Church by Jesus? Simply stated it was "Go into all the world and spread the good news"! Not "Go into all the world and spread the good news in THIS MANNER or IN THIS WAY"! Jesus wanted the early Church (and us) to simply tell people what Jesus did for them and us alike. Thats it. Our job is not to beat it down their throats! Its to simply tell people how Jesus has made a difference in our lives. Thats it! The rest is up to them to walk through the door that has been revealed by our words. Jesus knocks! but they have to open the door. We cannot open it and shove them through the door! It don't work that way.
Man has taken the great commission to the next step. We have added all the worldly rules and regulations to the act of spreading the Gospel. You must attend Church every time the doors are open. You must serve in the "Parking Lot Attendant Ministry" in order to be doing your part. You must give 1/10th of your income to God in the form of a thithe. You must, you must, you must. We have taken artistic license to get what we want in the name of the Church or in the name of God.
The comments from readers like (miracleemployee or kate) are stating things that are intended to inform people of their views and (I'm sure to start a debate). Comments from (Josh, Justin and Daniel <---- whom I know some of these men) are in obvious defense of their theater, beliefs, family and friends. Obviously the negative comments from some of your readers have beem successful in that they have incited much heated debate and with just cause I might add.
The reason that I am taking the time out of my day to comment of this situation is that I have had BOTH of these attitudes. When I left the theater under protest I wanted nothing to do with the Miracle. Why? Becuase they were not living up to what I thought they should be. They were not doing what I thought was right and BY GOD I'M GONNA SHOW THEM!! I held them accountable for things that I saw as marketing ploys and schemes to increase attendance. I thought "Your wanting to make money off of the name of MY LORD" and I don't want anything to do with it!! So I left. It was one of the biggest mistakes I have ever made! But I did not realize that until not too long ago.
You see, I still do not agree with some of the things that the Miracle does. Simply because I would do it differently. As I stated in the other Blog I mentioned, God has a tendancy to teach us things! you know? He has taught me over the past months that is the ultimate mission here not to tell people about what Jesus did for us? Is that not the mission that we were commanded to do? He taught me that regardless of my perceptions, the theater is also a business and it has a right to survive. In order to survive it must bring people through the door!
God impressed upon me that "Mike, regardless of what you think about their methods, are there not hundreds of people per night that might not ever hear about Me being told the story of what I did for them"? "Are they not being told the story of My love for them by the Miracle Theater"?
You know Phil, that was one of the most humbleing <--- is that spelled right? experiences that I have ever had. The answer is and ASTOUNDING YES!!! YES there are people that come to see the show that otherwise may never hear the story of Jesus Christ. God litterally YELLED in my ear "WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE THE MIRACLE FOR THE METHODS THEY USE TO TELL MY STORY"! Let me tell you.. when Jesus yells at you---- you listen! I found myself feeling a little like Job.
I am a person that would have been the first to jump on the anti Miracle band wagon not too long ago. Let's face it, for a while there I made no bones about the way I felt about the Miracle and David Fee. But you know that's the really cool thing about Jesus. He stands beside us and watches us pitch our little fit's and jump up and down and scream and holler "FOUL"! Then he looks us in the eye (in my case yells in my ear) "ARE YA DONE"? "FEEL BETTER NOW"? "GOOD! LET'S GET TO WORK"!
Recently David Fee made public his decision for Christ. Within minutes there were people casting doubt on whether or not he was serious or for real. Regardless of what people's thoughts are, David's heart is known only to God. Personally I know for a fact that he was told over a year ago that " David, God has a plan for your life. You cannot run from God too long because when God has a plan for your life evertime you run from Him, you run INTO Him"! I know this becuase I told him this personally. I have been praying for David since I met him and it looks like he finally ran into God for the last time! :) He made no bones about letting people know that he did not believe the way we did. YET... regardless of those beliefs he spent A LOT of money to mount and produce a show that tells the story of MY LORD! Why? God's pretty smart ya'll. He knows what He's doing.
I said all of that to say this, WHO CARES about the details surrounding the Kathy Griffin / Miracle USA Today Ad. WHO CARES how much money was spent. HOW it was spent or WHY it was spent. The bottom line is that there is a company in Pigeon Forge Tennessee that has taken on the ever growing unpopular position of speaking (out loud mind you) about Jesus Christ. Christians and non-Christians can pick apart the Who's, Why's and What For's all they want. The Miracle Theater is doing the very best it can to fulfill the Great Commission. Through what ever means they can they are simply telling the story of Jesus Christ. The last time I checked isn't that what being a "Christian" is supposed to be about?
Let's not forget that there is a new Child of God involved here. Tell me this, if God would choose to use David Fee who has the money, talent and resources to tell THOUSANDS of people over the course of two years about Jesus Christ while being an avid unbeliver, HOW POWERFULL WILL HIS MESSAGE BE NOW THAT HE IS MY BROTHER IN CHRIST? HOW STRONG WILL HIS WORK BE NOW THAT HE IS A CHILD OF THE KING?
I told David this just the other day and now I will tell anyone who reads this blog. (sorry this applies to Christians only guys) "You can pick your friends ya'll but your stuck with your family"! If you are a Christian you are either by Brother or Sister. Just like David Fee is now... Your stuck with me!
Bravo, Phil. This is what I was driving at days ago when I talked about supporting Christians who are working in the industry. Hollywood Prayer Network, Act One, Hollywood Connect, etc, are organizations that are doing just what you say - and they live sometimes check to check as organizations. What about donating that ad money to organizations like these?
Frankly, I am somewhat heartened by the dialgoue that has come about due to the ad as evidenced even here.
Just checking to see what time this comment goes up.
Phil said, "In fact, he chose NOT to answer certain questions. He understood the power of perception. We could learn a lesson."
-I wouldn't depend on that too heavily to make your point. :o)
By being silent before His accusers, Jesus was fulfilling Old Testament prophecy and not necessarily engaging in marketing, public relations, or clever debate tactics to score brownie points.
I forget the exact verse (I'm too lazy to look it up, hee hee!), but there was something about the Messiah being led like a sheep to the slaughter, who will not make a sound before his accusers.
Of course, the two aren't mutually exclusive, so maybe Jesus was fulfilling prophecy as well as sending some kind of message. So I'm not going to be dogmatic about it.
Maybe we should take this on a case by case basis, not just on the situation but also by the celebrity.
For example, there is one entertainer who used sacrilege fairly extensively (among a few other tactics) to get attention for herself, and it worked.
Everytime she insulted Jesus, she'd get on the cover of LIFE magazine, People magazine, etc.
So knowing full well that this particular celebrity was using blasphemy to court media attention, I'd lean on the side of those who would say, "Shut up and don't say anything, don't protest, you're only giving her the attention she wants, and it makes Christians look like idiots."
Let me digress to point something out.
Thanks to extremist Islam, I don't think you have to worry that Non-Christians consider Christians to be insane, easily offended, lunatics.
I hang out at a conservative blog where topics about Islamic terrorism and violence are regularly featured.
True news stories appear at that blog, such as how this one guy who was watching soccer on TV in an Islamic nation was put to death by Islamic police because the imams (Muslim clergy) had said previously that watching televised soccer was a sinful 'No-No,' and they wanted anyone who who had disobeyed killed.
It's gotten to the point where even atheists on that blog have said,
"You know, I used to be kind of hostile towards Christians - what an idiot I was. I now see the real danger comes from violent, Muslim crackpots! Christians aren't the ones flying planes into buildings or sending suicide bombers into crowds to blow up innocent people."
One of the atheist guys also conceded that when he compared Mohammed's writings to what Jesus said in the Gospels, that he really appreciated Jesus's messages of peace and love, while Mohammed taught to kill Jews and Christians. He said it was quite a contrast.
As for being easily offended and looking like lunatics and fools - remember how the worldwide Muslim community reacted over some stupid cartoons about "prophet" Mohammed?
Non-Christians (mostly "Average Joes" on internet discussion boards and blogs) even ripped on Muslims for being so touchy over such a dippy, daft, innocuous thing like a cartoon drawing of Mo.
And just think, when artists put a crucifix in a jar of urine, did Christians go on violent rampages, burning cars and buildings as the Muslims did in reaction to the Mo cartoons? Nope.
And believe me, some Non-Christians out there noticed the difference in how Christians react at stuff they find offensive vs. how the Muslims reacted.
Don't get me wrong, though: there are some leftists who despise Christians/ the right so much that they live in denial. Take Rosie O'Donnel, for instance, who said on "The View" that Christians are more dangerous than wacko, terrorist Muslims.
Re: Renee's comments:
Agreed. And then Christians wonder why they're "persecuted" and made fun of on national television. Oh boo hoo.
Unfortunately the biggest, loudest mouths are usually the most annoying to the rest of us. It's one of the main reasons why people of certain races/religions/etc ARE persecuted, they wont shut up about it! Hold what you believe in your heart and realize no two people on this planet are going to think the same as you do. It's what makes us human; the ability to think for ourselves and not follow like blind sheep.
Well, Renee, the difference is that American Christians are actually discriminated against. Christians don't lie and make up stories about being harassed for being Christian.
If you're interested in seeing numerous stories about the Christian faith being attacked in the USA, or about Christians who have been harassed for being Christian, you may want to do some digging at the World Net Daily site
People such as Rev. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton either lie wholesale or exaggerate supposed crimes against black people so they can scream, "See, see, whites are racists, we're discriminated against." (Google the name "Tawana Brawley" to see what I mean.)
These two guys, Sharpton and Jackson, are race baiters who make literal profit ($$$$$) off this. Jackson has gone to major American corporations and said, "If you don't pay me X amount of money, I am going to newspapers and declare that you are racist."
(BTW, I do not deny that there are some racist white people out there and that crimes have been committed by whites against blacks.)
We Christians are not persecuted entirely because we publicly denounce offensive, anti-Christian material.
We Christians are persecuted / discriminated against because we belong to Christ (Jesus Himself said so). Our mere existence hacks these people off, especially when we proclaim the Gospel.
Jesus said that His followers will be persecuted because the world hates us for being His, not because we may take out an ad in "USA Today."
Granted, American Christians don't usually face physical abuse or death for being Christian as in other nations, but the attacks on Christianity in America have more to do with silencing Christians and removing them and their beliefs from the public sphere, which is dangerous, too.
As Christians, we're supposed to spread the Gospel (including in the U.S.A.), but the ACLU doesn't want you to even have so much as the Ten Commandments in a public courthouse.
Other than a few very outspoken conservative radio talk show hosts, in the U.S.A., in today's climate of political correctness, you will not see people openly criticizing black people (on the merits of their views), illegal Hispanic immigrants, or homosexuals.
If you so much as disagree with a black man's opinions, Al Sharpton (and other liberals) will misconstrue it to say you're a racist.
Even Bill Cosby - who is black!- got raked across the coals by some other black people for pointing out that the black community should take responsiblity for their own predicament rather than blame white people for everything.
A couple of old ladies in Pennsylvania a few years back were tossed in jail merely for peacefully walking up and down a sidewalk saying homosexuality is not God-approved.
The groups everyone feels safe and free to bash are Republicans / Christians. This should concern you (the Christian part at least).
I can see how on the one hand, someone such as Al Sharpton does a disservice to his side, by continually jumping on each and every race-related event to scream "Racism!"
But on the other hand...
Why should offended liberal black people (such as Sharpton), offended homosexuals, offended Hispanic illegal immigrants, and offended secular feminists be given a pass and allowed to protest all the time, but offended, conservative Christians should remain silent?
Phil wrote,
Actually, there is a time to do nothing.
Okay; maybe in some situations.
Phil wrote,
Many times, Christians make a big deal out of something, which only draws more negative attention to the community. ... Do you actually think we're supposed to be parrots, jumping everytime we feel offended? How pitiful is that? Remember the movie "The Last Temptation of Christ"? ...
But I'm not comfortable saying that such inaccurate, untrue presentations of Christ should always go unanswered by Christians.
In the same way that the Christian protest drew attention to the film, it also drew attention to the Christian point of view on the film.
When someone makes a book or movie which contains false information about Jesus, such as Brown's "The Da Vinci Code" book and movie, and Christians stay silent, then your Average Joe Reader / Movie Goer gets only one side of the story.
He or she is left believing that Jesus was most likely married to Mary Magdalene and went about spouting off esoteric, nutty, touchie-feelie, hippie, Gnostic sayings rather than declaring Himself as the one and only Savior of the lost.
Someone in the New Testament - probably Paul - wrote that when skeptics raise questions or points against Christianity, we are to be ready with an answer.
I don't think we Christians are to remain silent and let the Non-Christian propaganda be presented unchallenged. We were given the mandate to preach the Gospel (which entails answering objections against it).
As for the specific situation about Kathy Griffin and the USA Today ad. I can see both sides of this debate, but - and without having seen the ad myself - I don't think taking out an ad to address the Griffin comments was all that horrible or wrong.
Christians, like other Americans, have freedom of speech and the right to exercise it.
Phil said,
There's no record to my knowledge of Jesus confronting the non-believing culture.
Well, in a way he did with the Samaritan woman at the well; the Samaritans were regarded by most Jews as being second class citizens and not true believers.
But putting that aside - that's another thing I wouldn't be so quick to use as an argument in your favor.
Jesus' stated mission was to preach the kingdom of God to the Jews first, so obviously He was not going to be investing much, if any, time in interacting with Gentiles and trying to convince some polytheistic Romans that He's the Messiah
The Apostle Paul and those guys were also supposed to preach the Gospel to Jews first and then the Gentiles.
The Bible itself doesn't really address non-believers, depending upon how you look at it. I think the only mention of atheists in the whole Bible is the part in the Old Testament where it says, "The fool has said in his heart there is no God."
Someone above wrote,
"How much more effective could they have been if they acknowledged her remarks, but simply said that "we in this little theatre community love you, Kathy Griffin, and so does your heavenly Father. Congratulations on your win!"?"
With a "P.S." attached:
And we await Ms. Griffin's next acceptance speech where she holds up a drawing of a man in a turban and says, "And this is my drawing of Mohammed," rips it in two and finishes with, "I don't need no stinking Islamic prophet to win my award. I spit on your Koran, bub!"
-------------------
I'd love to read the rest of the posts here and respond, but I'm getting sleepy. :o)
First - we call this a "post" not a "book." Love for you to chime in, but try to keep it short and sweet... :-)
Second - you must subscribe to the "Jesus was a Zombie" theory. That he was simply fulfilling prophecy and had little or no control over his actions. Truth is, he asked his father to release him from the responsibility and could have walked away any time. (And don't forget when Satan tempted him.) Don't think for a minute that Jesus didn't understand the implications of what he was doing. And for the record, if you think this is about "engaging in marketing, public relations, or clever debate tactics to score brownie points." then you couldn't be more wrong. This is about getting the most important message that mankind could ever know, and getting that message heard in the culture. Serious stuff.
Last - by "confronting", I'm talking about harsh, critical, and in your face confrontation. Not understanding or relationship. Jesus dealing with the woman at the well was a perfect example. He spoke the truth about her life, and didn't humiliate or criticize. In fact, she was so impressed with the encounter she ran and told her friends about this amazing man. A good lesson to learn.
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