Results of this are shocking to me -- and after oh so many years in this business, I do not shock very easy!!

Hands down the biggest story is the senate investigation ...it is so much broader than any individual story...and will impact the church for many years.

I will offer that the bigger Osteen story would be Joel Osteen says Mitt Romney and Mormons are Christians: http://www.apprising.org/archives/2007/12/joel_osteen_mit.ht ml

I see Phil. It does tie in with what's in your poll re. second generation prominence anyway, so it will be interesting to see if it'll even matter that Osteen has said this about Mormons. My guess is, it won't.

I have to agree based on what I see at more of a distance.

Joel doesn't seem to really care much for how he comes across to the traditional Christian base because that really isn't his target demographic, although I'm sure there's a significant base who watch him on TV.

There's always going to be a significant base that criticizes him for being too inclusive and nuetral. Willow Grove has gotten that criticism for years. It's a common mantra against seeker-sensitive Churches and for the most part they can ignore it because they are reaching the unchurched and lightly churched and not the traditional Christian base.

I think in this case however, that Joel is going beyond neutrality and reflecting the post-modern type message of tolerance of almost everything that is growing in out culture.

Christianity has a counter-cultural element to it that I think allows a great deal of room for many things but, when there's an elevation of acceptance and tolerance over a minimum baseline of core beliefs, especially one that goes to the core of Christianity, namely who is Christ and how are we saved, then you have to question whether core beliefs are driving his ministry or if the desire to be liked and inclusive is being elvated above that message.

I can't imagine Joel (whom I don't have any personal contact with but I did know his sister while I was at ORU) having a cruel bone in his body. I think he is genuine and real. I think he's at a point however where he's going to have to ask if his goal is to be culturally relevant at all costs or if there a minimum standards for which he's willing to risk making a statement of some absolutes that mean he may not be popular in the common marketplace.

That's the achilles heel of a great many larger minstries. When public image and the revenue it depends on elevates above core beliefs then I think you've got a serious problem. Joel is going to have to address it. Not facing it, is in itself a decision and it may very well mark an exclamation point which if unaddressed will characterize his ministry going forward.

I would submit that it is the continuing blindness of the church to recognize that all those things you've mentioned are part of an overall end times agenda. And the bride continues her unremarkable discipleship while sometimes becoming mildly interested in such confusing phenomenon.

Even the orthodox wing is content, casual, and consistent in their theological creeds but unconcerned with their lack of power. Spiritual disiplines like prayer, fasting, and solemn assemblies are historical in nature, surely not practiced in direct proportion to the present crisis. So the biggest religious story of 2007 is that the true church of Jesus Christ has God's power available to confront error and bring light into darkness, but she rejects the sacrifice necessary to put God to the test.

Joel Osteen..."What you compromise to gain, you will lose."...an old adage that applies here and to all of us. Amy Semple-McPherson had one of the largest churches in the U.S. in her day...Angeles Temple in L.A.(1920's) At one point, she had 20% of the polulation of L.A. in her congregation. Charlie Chaplin, Anthony Quinn and other Hollywood personalities often frequented her services. She never compromised her beliefs and teachings for incusiveness. The L.A. newspapers and media were brutal on her with their scandalous reporting but nonetheless, AS-Mc was true to her core beliefs. I think God honored her noncompromise (Scriptural)convictions and brought the masses to her doorstep. The positive, lasting effects were worldwide.

If there is a "decline in the popularity of the prosperity message," it is more "desire to see such" than a true reality. If anything, I think it is on the rise. If you fundamentaly examine their teachings, prosperity is only one part of their doctrine. To some in Amy's day, she would have been branded a "porsperity teacher." But for her, it was/is hard to argue with results...salvations, churches established, healings, etc. I was born and raised EUB/Methodist...then as an adult, Assemblies of God, Word of Faith and back to the A/G, presently. Were it not for the Word of Faith message, which includes "prosperity teaching," my family and I would not be walking in the divine health we have, nor experiencing the spiritual and financial success we have in our lives. For us, this spells a Christian who is in a much better position to preach, share, and minister the Gospel and the love of God to a lost and hurting world. On the contrary, we would be far less effective. Whether I was Methodist, A/G, Word of Faith, or EUB (Evangelical United Brethren), there were always those who erred and caused negative publicity. This never changed the positive fundamental teachings of these denominations/groups.

I dare anyone who really wants to know, to honestly examine (just as C.S. Lewis did with Christianity) the Word of Faith/posperity teaching as a whole and not come to the conclusion that their teachings and doctrines are scripturally sound. This would involve much time, effort and sincere investigation. This is what my family and I did when we first heard these teachings come to our home A/G church in the 1970's. PeterSmythe.org is an excellent teacher and I believe would be one place to possibly start in your search. Another place would be the online Rhema Faith Library in Tulsa, OK. Better yet, go visit RBTC in Tulsa.

New Life Church, and hopefully the church at large, took away many lessons from what went on with our former pastor Ted Haggard.

I've been covering New Life's transition since Ted throughout this year at my blog http://blog.myspace.com/joshmshep -- most recently the shooting at New Life that occurred in December. It's interesting that ABC News/Good Morning America has been covering the shooting so much, and it's mostly been positive. Video links at my blog.

happy new year,

-josh

http://blog.myspace.com/joshmshep

As E. Martinez said in an earlier post, pentecostalism/theology is where the beef lies with the WOF police, not so much money. Though it seems to be man's nature to take exception when another has "more money" than he. The true heart issue is more of covetousness of what another has. Were the tables turned, we would see a different picture.

What is the basis for the claim that the prosperity Gospel actually has declined in popularity, and that this decline has taken place in 2007?